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Old 14-Oct-2012, 02:19   #726
Reiko
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The thing that bothers me the most is the dynamic shadows. Though they ae pretty high res, they just look off. They probably just darken thinks on a very unrealistic way, alla most unreal engine games.
All halos did this, but I just wish this one could be different. For some reason modulated shadows are one of the hacks that jump at me the most. I remember hating it in Gears 1 and 2, Batman Arkham games, Mass Effect... The way it was done in Gears 3 for example was a huge improvement.
The shadows in gears 3 were baked into the environment.
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 02:26   #727
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The shadows in gears 3 were baked into the environment.
I know, but the dynamic ones had the correct color, they shadowed the direct term only and left the GI componet ( also baked ) unshadowed. They merged correctly with the environment baked ones, so there was no doubleshadowing, and the characters did receive shadows from the env. too. It was not a global shadow buffer as most games do, but it allowed simmilar results, without many of the artifacts assossiated with realtime shadows.
Still, many areas had the old modulated ones that are ugly, and I just can't believe how many times I saw the guns cast a shadow separated from the character holding it, and it created a very ugly double shadowing thing, that was probably also more costly memory wise.
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 10:27   #729
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Watched a few campaign segments, gun fights in Reach definitely looked better with its object motion blur, more dynamic lighting especially on muzzle flash and projectiles. The art design is much more attractive in Halo 4 though. I honestly don't see what's so impossible to pull off here?
I don't care about the motion blur, but the dynamic lights in Reach seem more noticeable by far, which makes the firefights look better in Reach than in 4, judging by the gameplay footage I have seen. Particles seem to have taken a hit as well. Grenade explosions look lackluster in comparison to Reach.

It's all preference, though.
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 13:26   #730
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I don't care about the motion blur, but the dynamic lights in Reach seem more noticeable by far, which makes the firefights look better in Reach than in 4, judging by the gameplay footage I have seen. Particles seem to have taken a hit as well. Grenade explosions look lackluster in comparison to Reach.

It's all preference, though.
Unfortunately, I couldn't resist but to watch good chunk of campaign but the area where Halo 4 has Reach (and almost any other game on console beaten) are particles.
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 14:09   #731
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Particles look fine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aoJMAMR038#t=3m54s

Reach plasma grenade:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AVL0yRWo44#t=34s
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 15:18   #733
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Those shots look kinda blurry are they not? The FXAA used here is really aggressive.
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 15:40   #734
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Those shots look kinda blurry are they not? The FXAA used here is really aggressive.
Looks like that. Although, I won't judge until I see it on my TV. ME3 has very sharp look, but once you are moving the entire picture is crawling with aliasing. MP3 in comparison looks much better even though its slightly blurrier when looking at direct feed stills.
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 16:06   #735
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The pics also look more compressed (And washed out) on the capture compared to the first one inside the ship. Maybe component capture?
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 18:56   #736
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Considering that I've played Reach much more than you have, I'm not downplaying its visual fidelity at all.It's definitely a nice looking game but Halo 4 really does look much better.
I didn't know the longer you play a game makes your opinion more credible. Besides, if your gamertag is the samer as your B3D username, then you don't come close to how much I've played Reach.

Anywho, take a look at this screenshot from Halo 4 (no spoilers, environment already revealed)
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6420/...ab6ca_orig.jpg and compare that to the opening scene from Winter Contingency (first Reach level). The difference really isn't as big as most people make it out to be.

Having said that, Halo 4 does look better than Reach, but people act as if Reach is an early gen title compared to 4. Give Reach some credit, it's still visually, technically and artistically great game.
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 18:58   #737
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http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6420/...ab6ca_orig.jpg

Looks really good to me.

Edit: I guess nobody is saying that Reach looks like a 2005 game, Reach looks really good. What people say is Halo 4 looks better, good IQ, 720p, better lighting, better animations, etc.
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 21:05   #738
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Originally Posted by AlStrong View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1D-Ar0dAaQ

http://youtu.be/b1qa4fcqBxY?t=41s

The particles in Reach look more dense. The explosions kick up chunks of dirt, dust, and they collide with the environment (somewhat).

Edit: Looks like Halo 4's particles have some sort of collision detection as well.
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 22:23   #739
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Those shots look kinda blurry are they not? The FXAA used here is really aggressive.
Aren't those shots from a stream? I don't think it's the fxaa.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 00:19   #740
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That's exactly what I was trying to say earlier, for example when you throw a plasma grenade in Reach it illuminates the surrounding but in Halo 4 it doesn't.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 00:24   #741
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Aren't those shots from a stream? I don't think it's the fxaa.
I thought they're from the same source as this one which is what they claim to be directfeed captures. Maybe the outdoor scenes look blurrier due to weak AF? http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6522/...d9f2a_orig.jpg
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 00:39   #742
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Weak texture filtering isn't going to blur the whole screen. There's not even any long walls at oblique angles to judge the texture filtering in that screenshot. There's quite a bit of compression artefacting in the darker areas, so maybe you should just wait for uncompressed (or the game) if you're that worried.

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That's exactly what I was trying to say earlier, for example when you throw a plasma grenade in Reach it illuminates the surrounding but in Halo 4 it doesn't.
They reduced the radii of lights. If you go to 3:47 you can clearly see the light emission from the plasma. For whatever reason, the replay cam at 3:50 didn't show the same effect. *shrug* Maybe it's a bug - dunno why the same scene would replay differently.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 00:49   #743
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Bitching about the engine aside, there's a new ViDoc with a lot of footage:

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Old 15-Oct-2012, 01:30   #744
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Originally Posted by HollovVpo1nt View Post
I didn't know the longer you play a game makes your opinion more credible. Besides, if your gamertag is the samer as your B3D username, then you don't come close to how much I've played Reach.

Anywho, take a look at this screenshot from Halo 4 (no spoilers, environment already revealed)
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6420/...ab6ca_orig.jpg and compare that to the opening scene from Winter Contingency (first Reach level). The difference really isn't as big as most people make it out to be.

Having said that, Halo 4 does look better than Reach, but people act as if Reach is an early gen title compared to 4. Give Reach some credit, it's still visually, technically and artistically great game.
My gamertag isn't the same as my B3D screen name just to let you know.Reach is a nice looking game but Halo 4 does look much better from the HD videos that I've seen.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 01:46   #745
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You guys clearly don't understand the issue here. This is Halo and it's not running on a PS3, so it's obviously not allowed to look good. Something has to be seriously wrong with the graphics, it just takes a little effort to find it and point it out for everyone to see.


On a more serious note, I checked Corinne Yu's twitter and she sort of hinted at H4 using an energy conserving shading model. As far as I know that requires a linear lighting model and thus HDR rendering.
Oh and ever since the game's gone gold, she's been at work taking the engine apart
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 02:17   #746
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Why would she be taking the engine apart...
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 03:09   #747
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She wants to make it better, obviously They have a lot of experience on working with actual game content and they may also be able to start prototyping stuff for next gen hardware. There isn't that much info in the tweets but it puts some things into perspective.

For example, this one I understand:
"Excitement I feel moment Halo goes gold is I get to tear code apart and do serious work.I am more eager to stay late after gold than before"

This one not so much:
"I am tempted to rewrite facial animation solver as computing all covariance in bignum arithmetic as covariance is big decrease in precision."

I only have some very rough idea about what this means, and most of my work is facial rigging nowadays. It really is some high level stuff, the image based facial capture in Halo 4 seems pretty close to movie VFX quality.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 04:36   #748
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the image based facial capture in Halo 4 seems pretty close to movie VFX quality.
Yeah it does look pretty amazing, one of the biggest improvements over previous Halos and among the best I've seen in video games.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 05:38   #749
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Bitching about the engine aside, there's a new ViDoc with a lot of footage:
The clip at 10:06 looks amazing.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 09:24   #750
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Animations are great:
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