[Blazkowicz]

it's one fast 128bit card.
I'm sure it'll get down in price but nvidia is not in a hurry. Wait for when 28nm has a lot of volume.

[Ailuros]

Originally Posted by Alexko

I don't know. According to Steam's hardware survey, they really don't need to, but then again Steam's numbers are so strange that I doubt they can be trusted.

Right now in my neck of woods I can find a 7950 a tad over 300 Euros, a 670 at =/>380 Euros and 680s start at 500 and upwards. It might be an awkward comparison but for the performance difference between a 7950 and a 680 I'd personally wouldn't give a rat's ass with a rough 200 Euros price difference. It's not that I can afford a 30" monitor either at this point.

Ignore Steam hw surveys, yields and capacities have been rising lately, meaning that after some point if NV covers demand they're going to do what with the inventory above that?

[LittleJ]

Originally Posted by Ailuros

"Methinks" on the other hand that it's high time for NVIDIA to start considering slashing their prices for a change.

I'm quite surprised base GTX 680s are going for 499.99$. More propper pricing would probaly be 429.99$ for GTX 680, 349.99$ for the 670, and 279.99$ for the 660Ti.

But if they are moving stock at the inflated prices, there are no incentives to slash prices....

[LittleJ]

IMO, prices for Kepler GTX family, based on performance should be:

GTX 680 399.99$
GTX 670 349.99$
GTX 660Ti 249.99$
GTX 660 199.99$
GTX 650Ti 149.99$
GTX 650 99.99$

[Ailuros]

If and when 28nm GPU normalize to former 40nm heights, I don't see much reason why any highest performance SKU should cost more than $350 as a maximum and even that is too much.

[UniversalTruth]

Oh, and do you remember the 55 nm heights? When the state-of-the-art 55 nm RV790 was priced even below 200$.

If now GTX680/ Radeon HD 7970 are priced at that level, everyone will wanna one (or perhaps more) and slower (cheaper) products would be unnecessary.

[Ailuros]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

If now GTX680/ Radeon HD 7970 are priced at that level, everyone will wanna one (or perhaps more) and slower (cheaper) products would be unnecessary.

There will always be users that would want a =/<$50 GPU and not just a few of them. Considering how small the GK107 actually is, it's the price point where the lowest end Kepler actually should be (give or take) with up to 40nm prices.

But if the highest end SKU starts with 500 bucks MSRP for a performance part, it's no particular miracle either that the lowest SKU starts at $110.

I at least hope that things will be a lot better next year when both IHVs release their respective successing parts to the existing ones today.

[UniversalTruth]

Oh, there will always be someone who is not completely satisfied.
Now, it's me and many like me who don't see any value in 500$ GTX680 (you know it's a mainstream part but they lie to you that it is the best they can offer ) (even though I can be considered as an enthusiast but this pricing kills that instinct in me ), and others who will potenitally complain why you offer them a state-of-the-art top performance for 200$ but they don't wanna it, and instead some trash for 50$...

[A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y]

Nvidia has issues a press release for the GTX 650 Ti

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia...130000041.html

so where are the reviews?

[Ailuros]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6359/t...-650-ti-review

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

Oh, there will always be someone who is not completely satisfied.
Now, it's me and many like me who don't see any value in 500$ GTX680 (you know it's a mainstream part but they lie to you that it is the best they can offer ) (even though I can be considered as an enthusiast but this pricing kills that instinct in me ), and others who will potenitally complain why you offer them a state-of-the-art top performance for 200$ but they don't wanna it, and instead some trash for 50$...

Not everyone is playing games on a PC; in fact the majority isn't. Why would anyone with a budget PC that doesn't intend to play any games on it would want a $200 GPU of any sort anyway, if the entire PC won't cost probably more than say $400 with a low end GPU in it?

See Anandtech's conclusion in the review above; it's not that the 650Ti is a bad product its pricing just is out of place considering that AMD made a smart strategic move and reduced its 7800 prices. Prices are relative within each product family; it hardly makes sense to have a low end variant priced at $50 as in my previous example with a performance SKU ending up at $500. The price of a GTX650 isn't absurd at $109 if you consider what the higher end SKUs cost. My only other point was that as much a 680 isn't really worth its 500 bucks the same goes for the $110 for a 650.

[jimbo75]

Originally Posted by A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y

Nvidia has issues a press release for the GTX 650 Ti

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia...130000041.html

so where are the reviews?

Reviews have been up for 30 minutes already.

[UniversalTruth]

Originally Posted by Ailuros

hNot everyone is playing games on a PC; in fact the majority isn't. Why would anyone with a budget PC that doesn't intend to play any games on it would want a $200 GPU of any sort anyway, if the entire PC won't cost probably more than say $400 with a low end GPU in it?

Oh, if they don't play games, then they can be easily taught how to do it. How is it possible that everyone was taught how "good" it is to have a smartphone (which in some cases is used only for respect accessory), or tablets, or etc stuff?

[Ailuros]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

Oh, if they don't play games, then they can be easily taught how to do it. How is it possible that everyone was taught how "good" it is to have a smartphone (which in some cases is used only for respect accessory), or tablets, or etc stuff?

Isn't that discussion extremely pointless? Whoever wants to go out on a mission evangelizing for PC gaming be my guest. The point in case is that there are products in all markets for all pockets and needs. There are also humble work PCs for example; should we convince firms that don't need to spend the additional money on higher end GPUs when they actually don't want their employees to do more than office work?

Even worse let's try and convince all the low end dumbphone users that they absolutely "need" a $200 or higher priced smart-phone. To each his own.

[LittleJ]

Looks like GTX 650Ti could have really used the full 192bit bus. This SKU is the GK106 salvage part. If AMD can release a Pitcairn salvage SKU(7850) with full 256bit bus and a few less shaders then NV really needed the 650Ti to have the full bus and 1.5GB mem. It might have competed better with the 7850 than it did...

[lanek]

Originally Posted by LittleJ

Looks like GTX 650Ti could have really used the full 192bit bus. This SKU is the GK106 salvage part. If AMD can release a Pitcairn salvage SKU(7850) with full 256bit bus and a few less shaders then NV really needed the 650Ti to have the full bus and 1.5GB mem. It might have competed better with the 7850 than it did...

The problem is by use the name 660TI for a card who is closely a 670 with a little memory bus. they have completely decline the 650 series with lower position on performance.

the 660 should be the 650TI ( GK106 ) and the the 650TI should be the 650 ( on GK106 too.. ( and priced accordly offcourse ) ..

There you have a 660 on GK106, a GK660TI on GK104.. and a 650TI who is around 25% slower of the HD78501gb ( who cost more or less the same price )

or they decrease the price by a good 25-30$ on the 650, 650 TI and GTX660 for place them each time against the AMD cards ( 7770-7850 priced respectively now at 109 and 159$ )

[iMacmatician]

Originally Posted by LittleJ

Looks like GTX 650Ti could have really used the full 192bit bus. This SKU is the GK106 salvage part. If AMD can release a Pitcairn salvage SKU(7850) with full 256bit bus and a few less shaders then NV really needed the 650Ti to have the full bus and 1.5GB mem. It might have competed better with the 7850 than it did...

There was the listing of 3 GK106 GeForce cards a month ago:



So it seems that the 650 Ti is the GK106-200, and the GK106-250 is still to come.

How would a GK106 with 768 CCs at 980 MHz (maybe with Boost?) and a 192-bit bus with 5.4 Gbps GDDR5 do against the 7850?

[UniversalTruth]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

How would a GK106 with 768 CCs at 980 MHz (maybe with Boost?) and a 192-bit bus with 5.4 Gbps GDDR5 do against the 7850?

It will fail miserably.



http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/M...dition/28.html

Given also that the cheapest 650Ti is this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121669
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CE&PageSize=20

And the cheapest Radeon HD 7850 is

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150617
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CE&PageSize=20

$154.99 vs $159.99 after $20.00 rebate(s).

It might have competed better with the 7850 than it did...

No competition at all.

[iMacmatician]

So geforce.com says "Kepler Family Complete: Introducing The GeForce GTX 650 Ti."

Does that imply there won't be any more first-generation (GK10x) Keplers, at least non-OEM ones? If so then maybe that GK106-250 will be an OEM-only card.

[lanek]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

So geforce.com says "Kepler Family Complete: Introducing The GeForce GTX 650 Ti."

Does that imply there won't be any more first-generation (GK10x) Keplers, at least non-OEM ones? If so then maybe that GK106-250 will be an OEM-only card.

I think they have test different sku, clock speed, maybe even different memory controller ( AMD do it too ) .. and this where the spec on the list who have been posted show his limit.

For be honest, if Nvidia had something in more for the series ready by now, they will have release it as 650TI, and find something else for this 650TI ( ) ..
If it come this will not be before november now.. and its start to be really late for it. maybe in the 750 line up.

In adddition about the review, i see many who dont even mention the price annonced by AIB for the 78501gb at 159$...

[Dr Evil]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

It will fail miserably.

I wonder how many will run these at 2560x1600...Man you are something else...

[frameavenger]

Another review NVIDIA GTX 650 Ti on framebuffer.com.br

[UniversalTruth]

Originally Posted by Dr Evil

I wonder how many will run these at 2560x1600..

I always take this resolution as a showcase of the potential of the card. Tomorrow with more demanding games, etc. Maybe I'm mistaken.

[Dr Evil]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

I always take this resolution as a showcase of the potential of the card. Tomorrow with more demanding games, etc. Maybe I'm mistaken.

A card with a 128 bit memory bus has no place at that resolution, also how is that chart a proof that a card with the GK106 die and 768cores on a 192 bit bus wouldn't be competitive, since the 660 is faster than 6970 on that chart? The price comparisons are somewhat "cute" too, since the 650 Ti launched today. Give it some time to find it's place, you typically don't get discounts on day1...

[ninelven]

Originally Posted by LittleJ

Looks like GTX 650Ti could have really used the full 192bit bus. This SKU is the GK106 salvage part. If AMD can release a Pitcairn salvage SKU(7850) with full 256bit bus and a few less shaders then NV really needed the 650Ti to have the full bus and 1.5GB mem. It might have competed better with the 7850 than it did...

Yes, the 128bit bus is just odd... I guess they felt it would be too close to the 660 otherwise, but if that was the case, I think they would have been better off just using lower clocks on the 650 Ti. As for competing with the 7850, that isn't really its job. Nvidia's 4th tier card is the 660. The pricing reflects Nvidia's belief they can charge a premium for their name. For the high end, that may be true, but I doubt they will be so lucky in the value segment.

[jimbo75]

This has to be purely a yield decision. They've gone with the best they can get as often as they can. I do agree with ninelven that Nvidia believes they can get by on their superior brand, however they cannot continue to have this kind of defeat and remain unscathed. The 650Ti has been released to a resounding "who gives a shit".