[HellFire_]

Originally Posted by XpiderMX

More security=less leaks

Not necessarily, most of the infos come from devs. But the security increase is interesting, because the hardware design is supposed to enter finalization.

[Grall]

Originally Posted by LightHeaven

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Ms had hardware refreshes evey other year, and still maintained compability to previous models (at least for a little while) while bringing new stuff exclusive to the new hardware...

You know, that'd be an excellent way to run themselves and everybody else in the industry into bankruptcy.

How would anyone afford essentially pushing the installed user base counter reset button to zero every year when big-budget titles can cost $100M to produce? Console platform works only because of fixed system that stays the same for years. If hardware was a constantly moving target all that would come crashing down.

Also, if you had to buy a new console every year to play the latest games, not only would you piss off all your customers of previous hardware when their stuff becomes junk just a year - at most! - down the road (good luck trying to sell a single console more than 6 months into its lifespan... ), the console hardware itself would have to be very cheap and hence very weak, since people can't afford to spend hundreds of dollars on consoles every year, and hardware manufacturers can't afford to subsidize their hardware each time a new box is released.

This is the craziest idea I've ever heard. Ok, Chaphack's idea that what we now know as the xbox 360 would release with a 10GHz intel "tejas" processor maybe was even crazier. It's hard to objectively tell which idea is the worst offender!

Besides, Apple's model isn't to change hardware every year and make everything new exclusive to this year's product. If it was, there's no way they'd reached the position they're in now. Instead, iOS 6 works on the iPhone 3GS, which was released like...3.5 years ago, or something. Their schtick is as close to the current console business model as you can get, and still update hardware on a yearly-ish basis.

[ultragpu]

This Pastbin dude is at it again and honestly I think he might as well type in a gpu from Mars while he's at it
http://pastebin.com/N8rXsnxr

Orbis- original Orbis had 2 GB of GDDR5, plans have changed, launch of the system has delayed till Fall 2014. sony's version of next-gen requires them to wait till parts get cheaper.

AMD cpu
6 GB Unified RAM. being told technology for RAM is currently n/a. new tech might not be available in 2014, if so plans to downgrade to 4 GB. 1gb / 512mb will go to the OS.
AMD 8870 performance in a 9770 form. 9000 series card since it will be cooler and smaller. 4.2 teraflops
Bluray drive, nothing out of the ordinary. same 50gb disc.
Strong focus on 3D and 4k content.
$449 base with $499 Premium
no bc

[goldenlight]

Originally Posted by liolio

Well that's a reason why I think the Sony should go with a "wii for core gamers", if they can afford something it can't be that expansive. MSFT has no reason to let them any advantage.
MSFT many strengths seems to come together, the next box could have proper OS, the matching app store, they can still subsidize the hell out of it, they won the US, they have Kinect.
Still I don't see how Sony could go cloud only, infrastructures are still not ready and when they are sometime the ISP business model works again cloud gaming.
Then putting the whole technical issues aside there is the big question of the validity of the cloud model. I would like to see how much it costs to put together and maintain the infrastructure for any reasonable user base (in millions) without "error 37" kind of incidents becoming the bread and better of the gaming press... I think that the 300 millions they spent is a miss-investment anyway. I can only imagine the face of the share owners when a few months after the buy out Onlive bombed raising a lot of question about this business model and if it's ready for prime anytime soon.

Not to take too seriously without further information, still I found bothering the lack of noise surrounding the ps4, not a single leak from a respectable sources. For the xbox next we at least got the name and the fact that developers are working on it. Next example last Bink update.

I agree , there is various leak about xbox next , but almost none about PS4
the lekaed Bink, also only listed Durango, before removed from the web.

The purpose of leaked PS4 document seems to made (sorry) PS3 owner happy.
The Document specifically listed 1.8 TF figures. it is almost like advertisement.
Then after this leaked document is so much euphoria about this, and forgetting little fact.

If i remember the Gaikai owner itself said about only 2 console maker will go
into nextgen, or maybe just like u said, the other going into wii route.
wii-u is wii nextgen version. so we left with Sony and MS.

Just like Aegis said

Sony's release calendar is dead after June, and I can't remember the last time that happened. I just don't know how they can afford it.

Also Microsoft boosts Xbox HQ security
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-w...ance-hardware/

I suspect MS targetting 2.5+ TF maybe if we lucky 3+ TF.

[DieH@rd]

Originally Posted by ultragpu

This Pastbin dude is at it again and honestly I think he might as well type in a gpu from Mars while he's at it
http://pastebin.com/N8rXsnxr

This can come true only if Sony delays PS4 to late 2014... and that is not a good move.

[almighty]

Originally Posted by DieH@rd

This can come true only if Sony delays PS4 to late 2014... and that is not a good move.

PS3 was later then 360 but didn't have the extra power to make up for it.

If Sony are late to the game again but this time have the extra performance gained from waiting then it might just work in there favour.

Releasing a machine 12 months later then Microsoft that's is not any faster would be suicide for Sony.

[user542745831]

Originally Posted by LXFBN

What bg said simply isn't true, hardware today is much more efficient than 2005 hardware.

Wasn't there an interview from the EA need for speed guy where he said that DX11 was 300% more efficient than DX9?

It's over there:

Originally Posted by games.on.net/2012/09/why-the-pc-version-of-nfs-most-wanted-will-be-the-best-around-criterion-talks-tech/

http://games.on.net/2012/09/why-the-...on-talks-tech/

[...]

games.on.net: Do you know which features of DX11 you’ll be using?

Leanne Loombe: We’re primarily leveraging the increased efficiency of DX11 to give improved performance. The move to DX11 from DX9 has given us around a 300% improvement in rendering performance.

[...]

[goldenlight]

Originally Posted by ultragpu

This Pastbin dude is at it again and honestly I think he might as well type in a gpu from Mars while he's at it
http://pastebin.com/N8rXsnxr

Orbis- original Orbis had 2 GB of GDDR5, plans have changed, launch of the system has delayed till Fall 2014. sony's version of next-gen requires them to wait till parts get cheaper.

AMD cpu
6 GB Unified RAM. being told technology for RAM is currently n/a. new tech might not be available in 2014, if so plans to downgrade to 4 GB. 1gb / 512mb will go to the OS.
AMD 8870 performance in a 9770 form. 9000 series card since it will be cooler and smaller. 4.2 teraflops
Bluray drive, nothing out of the ordinary. same 50gb disc.
Strong focus on 3D and 4k content.
$449 base with $499 Premium
no bc

TBH from prespective Sony as a whole i think the info is reverse
sony using Jaguar + 2.1 TF, and MS have the beast version 4TF+

Actually Acert93 posted similar from another forum several weeks or months a go i forget that listed a clue from MS insider "4T,6G,13" this is the same as above. (nobody believing it, but i think probably we learn maybe there is some truth)

it is like when we know MS going to have a beast version then somebody posted on pastebin and reverse it to be Sony , forgetting little fact.

if Aegis ex IGN, said How sony can afford it .
Do you think sony is ready and can afford to release 4TF version without doing some extensive RD with AMD.

When every rumor the one that have good relationship and extensive RD on GPU
are MS and AMD starting with xbox 360.

Also remember rumor about MS low yield from semiaacurate.
It is like they try to fabbed a monster chip.

[tongue_of_colicab]

I think people need to get their heads out of the clouds a little bit. Some of the rumors just don't sound realistic at all. New type of memory that might not even be ready for production? (and if it is, probabaly comes at a premium not to mention potential bad yields), gpu's 2 generations from now but comparing performance with a next gen part? (how do they know how a gpu that doesn't even exist yet is gonna perform? and why not just only mention that its a 9xxx part?) and all that for 50 bucks more that the 360 was, by that time, 10 years ago?

[Acert93]

Originally Posted by Proelite

Goddamn people's expectations are running too high.
Bkilian needs to come in and put the smack down.

So why don't you tell us what is, "Just right."

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by Acert93

So why don't you tell us what is, "Just right."

Expect two XB360s or PS3's duck-taped together. Then whatever comes out, it'll be an exciting beating of expectations instead of a disappointment.

[AlStrong]

*checks thread tags for duct tape* ಠ_ಠ

[goldenlight]

Aegis ex IGN share his thought again
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=896
about many poster suggesting Sony and MS are parity, not much different in base design

The parity theory is a little odd to me, [B]if for no other reason than Microsoft will in all likelihood own their chipset designs for the CPU and the GPU, which would indicate at least some prominent differences from the stock parts people keep referencing[/B].

Same as my thought,
sony can not afford crazy design, probably sony will go off the self part or wii route
MS will go extensive design and RD, will not use stock part

IF MS already secretly doing some RD with AMD for years, they have some future
AMD GPU custom designed maybe even further than 9xxx, just like
AMD roadmap GPU, they already planning up to 2015

[Osamar]

So "4T,6G,13" is supposed to mean, a 4Tflop system (CPU+GPU), 6Gbyte RAM for games and year 2013

[Megadrive1988]

Hopefully the next Xbox GPU is as forward-looking as Xenos was in 2005 (completed in late 2004).

[anexanhume]

Originally Posted by Osamar

So "4T,6G,13" is supposed to mean, a 4Tflop system (CPU+GPU), 6Gbyte RAM for games and year 2013

4 Threads

[AlStrong]

4 TMUs, 6GB/s, age 13 target audience.
4 TWatts, 6 GoogolplexFLOP/s, 13 salaries

[Megadrive1988]

LOL.

[XpiderMX]

Originally Posted by anexanhume

4 Threads

Or... 4trolls

Expect two XB360s or PS3's duck-taped together.

Microsoft copying Nintendo

[LightHeaven]

Originally Posted by Grall

You know, that'd be an excellent way to run themselves and everybody else in the industry into bankruptcy.

How would anyone afford essentially pushing the installed user base counter reset button to zero every year when big-budget titles can cost $100M to produce? Console platform works only because of fixed system that stays the same for years. If hardware was a constantly moving target all that would come crashing down.

That's precisely my point, they wouldn't reset the user base to zero, old consoles would play new games (at least for a while), and new consoles would play those games at higher quality settings or resolution or framerate (or all 3).

Currently Ms has all in place to achieve that: It has a platform and framework that are *designed* to run and provide applications to run on different form factors and architectures. They are also providing development tools so developers can make applications that scale from cell phones to high end gaming Pcs (and i don't mean just scaling the interface, Dx11.1 has features to test performance and scale pretty much everything on the graphics side).

Originally Posted by Grall

Also, if you had to buy a new console every year to play the latest games, not only would you piss off all your customers of previous hardware when their stuff becomes junk just a year - at most! - down the road (good luck trying to sell a single console more than 6 months into its lifespan... ), the console hardware itself would have to be very cheap and hence very weak, since people can't afford to spend hundreds of dollars on consoles every year, and hardware manufacturers can't afford to subsidize their hardware each time a new box is released.

They actually only need to ensure the first 720 is at least on par of what Ps4 has to offer... If it can provide the same performance in the long run early adopts are going to be just as much pissed as any early adopter of each generation was, once comes a new hardware that can play the same games but better. Only that instead of Pcs that could be other game consoles.

It also enables Ms to become more agressive about prices. Knowing that they will be able to do more refreshes with the hardware than the current 8-year-generation model would allow them to have less exoteric devices which could be become cheaper faster, or maybe even get the price down faster by selling other consoles with the same performance level, but differences in hardware with newer architectures..

Think of this scenario: Both 720 and Ps4 launch in 2013, both at 450-500 dollars... In 2015 Ms offers a new revised model which by using a new architecture allows them to price it comfortably 50 dollars bellow anything Sony can price the Ps4... And a new high end option at the same 450-500 dollars... They market it very clearly that the old model is just as powerful as the Ps4, and will run all the same games PS4 will, but this new model can run those same games with more features... Do you really think that this scenario wouldn't put Ms in a very competitive position against sony?

Originally Posted by Grall

This is the craziest idea I've ever heard. Ok, Chaphack's idea that what we now know as the xbox 360 would release with a 10GHz intel "tejas" processor maybe was even crazier. It's hard to objectively tell which idea is the worst offender!

I agree, having new hardware leaving the old ones completely uncompatible with new stuff is crazy and stupid. But i'm not talking about that :P

Originally Posted by Grall

Besides, Apple's model isn't to change hardware every year and make everything new exclusive to this year's product. If it was, there's no way they'd reached the position they're in now. Instead, iOS 6 works on the iPhone 3GS, which was released like...3.5 years ago, or something. Their schtick is as close to the current console business model as you can get, and still update hardware on a yearly-ish basis.

I know what Apple's model is. I think you misunderstood what i was saying.

I meant:

Old consoles getting to run new games and apps, and having a few (but not all) of the new features.


New consoles being anle to run old and new games, and having all the new features.

After a few years (at least 4, or 2 hardware refeshes) the previous models weren't going to be guaranteed to run all the new apps, but it could run some. And if the user decide to upgrade they will have a shinny new option from the same platform he has, probably launching first than the competition which will only come years later...

Couple that with Ms current experiments with subscription based purchases, and you could be looking at a potencial SKU for the new console: Buy one at a cheaper price, bundled with 2 years of Ms subscriptions (Xbox Live, Office, Skydrive, Skype, Xbox Audio Pass), and right when this subscription expires will have a new product to upgrade.

They very much could not do any of this. but they are aligning their entire Interface and development framework, as well pricing models to allow this scenario... Could be just a coincidence, but i honestly doubt that. And i'm not saying it wouldn't be hard to pull off...

[Love_In_Rio]

Originally Posted by Osamar

So "4T,6G,13" is supposed to mean, a 4Tflop system (CPU+GPU), 6Gbyte RAM for games and year 2013

Maybe the truth is that both companies have joint to get economies of scale by using the same chips.fabbing a 20 nm gpu in economically doable way is easier with more demand and the same happens with memory and cpu.

[dragonelite]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

4 TMUs, 6GB/s, age 13 target audience.
4 TWatts, 6 GoogolplexFLOP/s, 13 salaries

my salary is like $2/hour with internship so $26 is like cheapest console launch ever and 6 GoogolplexFlops.

Tears of joy.

[bkilian]

Originally Posted by Proelite

Goddamn people's expectations are running too high.
Bkilian needs to come in and put the smack down.

BKilian's not putting the smack anywhere. You guys are welcome to speculate all across the map. Just remember that for a set top box, a 600 watt power supply is not an option like it is on a PC.

Originally Posted by Cyan

The development of the new console caused that Microsoft are going to ramp up security at their headquarters, more specifically where it's home to the Xbox team.

This security changes will apparently affect Microsoft Studios A, B, C, and D on the west side of state Route 520 --wherever that is.

It looks like Microsoft will be implementing new physical security measures too. These new security protocols are meant to limit employee access at a few key Xbox and Interactive Entertainment Business buildings in order to ensure total secrecy and complete confidentiality of upcoming products.

http://n4g.com/news/1091333/microsoft-boosts-xbox-hq-security-as-company-gears-up-for-next-console

Yep, I'm surprised it's taken this long. I've been of the opinion that security in Studio A (where I am) has been a joke for a while now. I wonder how it'll effect the annual children rampaging through our hallways at Halloween... It'll be a real shame if I have to eat my bowl of candy myself.

[goldenlight]

Originally Posted by LightHeaven

Currently Ms has all in place to achieve that: It has a platform and framework that are *designed* to run and provide applications to run on different form factors and architectures. They are also providing development tools so developers can make applications that scale from cell phones to high end gaming Pcs (and i don't mean just scaling the interface, Dx11.1 has features to test performance and scale pretty much everything on the graphics side).


Couple that with Ms current experiments with subscription based purchases, and you could be looking at a potencial SKU for the new console: Buy one at a cheaper price, bundled with 2 years of Ms subscriptions (Xbox Live, Office, Skydrive, Skype, Xbox Audio Pass), and right when this subscription expires will have a new product to upgrade.

They very much could not do any of this. but they are aligning their entire Interface and development framework, as well pricing models to allow this scenario... Could be just a coincidence, but i honestly doubt that. And i'm not saying it wouldn't be hard to pull off...

Agree with your observation

Anyway now PS4 is a beast have 2nd wind after pastebin post,
neogaf is in euphoria state, PS4 thread filled with joy.

After 1.8TF, now PS4 precisely 2x xbox next, 4.2TF vs 2.1 Durango
of course in reality all PS4 rumor don't have any any base of assumption.


IF there is one company left to create such a beast (can afford too),
have created such a custom GPU by working together with AMD before,
have infrastructure, have all developer tools, etc, it will be MS

As Aegis said
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=896

The parity theory is a little odd to me, if for no other reason than Microsoft will in all likelihood own their chipset designs for the CPU and the GPU, which would indicate at least some prominent differences from the stock parts people keep referencing.

[COPS N RAPPERS]

Originally Posted by Cyan

It looks like Microsoft will be implementing new physical security measures too. These new security protocols are meant to limit employee access at a few key Xbox and Interactive Entertainment Business buildings in order to ensure total secrecy and complete confidentiality of upcoming products.

http://n4g.com/news/1091333/microsoft-boosts-xbox-hq-security-as-company-gears-up-for-next-console

The boost in security doesn't mean that the tech has been decided.....an xbox 360 tiny could be in the making for all we know. some of the people closest to Microsoft say that have their engines geared for the next xbox but even THEY don't know what it entails.

.....Epic games keeps on insisting a GT680 ( or equivalent) is going to make the cut and same thing with 343 studios, and crytech. so it shows how much they really know. with few games to follow up on the only title that we've seen gameplay on that is considered a xbox 720 or 3 title is "Ryse" from cryteck. as it still bares Microsoft's trade mark. (and it was NOT running on durango hardware.)

the rest of the vids that come from the same developers that are close to the company are still suppositions. the only thing you can gain from a tight security is that they've started research and development on something. which if that's the case it can be a while.