[eastmen]

ITs a comercial guys , do you really think siri responds to you perfectly in seconds and understands everything you say all the time.

[silent_guy]

Originally Posted by eastmen

ITs a comercial guys , do you really think siri responds to you perfectly in seconds and understands everything you say all the time.

Siri is a cute toy, but when it doesn't always work well in practice, it's not a big deal. It will get better over time and that is that.

The problem for Nokia is that people are ditching portable cameras left and right and replace them by phones, and that Nokia has somewhat of a reputation to defend in this area. (It's frankly their only real competitive advantage, IMO.) Faking it and making it so easy to see was plain stupid. It destroys years of a carefully built reputation. If they had simply done some additional post-processing on actual phone shot footage, nobody would have said a thing.

[Mariner]

The Apple adverts do at least mention, "Sequences shortened", or somesuch nonsense.

I think the new Nokia adverts were being rather disingenuous, to say the least, but I'm more surprised how utterly ineptly the one purporting to show OIS video in action was filmed. You'd think somebody in pre or post-production might have thought about the obvious reflection showing the truck and camera?

The stills available also look pretty good for a cameraphone though, again, trying to pass off the well-lit professional shots as being from the 920 was not exactly genuine, either.

Ultimately, there looks to be some good innovation in the 920's camera so it's a pity that they've blundered so badly with their marketing. I do think that expanding the PureView moniker to encapsulate the 920 is rather lame, however, as the 808 and the 920 are two very different beasts.

[Kaotik]

All the shots taken on 920 have the note "Taken with Lumia 920 prototype", those are the only ones Nokia ever claimed to be with it, the rest is normal advertising/commercial stuff

[Mariner]

Originally Posted by Kaotik

All the shots taken on 920 have the note "Taken with Lumia 920 prototype", those are the only ones Nokia ever claimed to be with it, the rest is normal advertising/commercial stuff

The original "OIS ON" images released with the faked video were also faked and Nokia has now apologised for this.

I realise that there was no specific claim that these were taken with the 920 but if you're watching a promo video which purports to show the OIS of the 920 and some stills which are promoting the OIS of the 920, it's not too much of a stretch to think that this was the actual device used to take them. Very disingenuous at the very least.

The valid images linked elsewhere show that the low-light stuff is pretty good for a cameraphone (though I'm not convinced that the one with the girl leaning against the tree doesn't have some external lighting in the 920 shot...), so it seems a shame that they messed around in this manner. If your device is considerably better than your competitors in some areas, why try to claim it is even better than that?

I suppose that one possibility is that the 920 prototypes weren't available when the marketing blurb was being shot.

Comparisons with Apple's advertising practices aren't really accurate as Nokia don't have the famous Jobs reality distortion field available to them!

[Kaotik]

No, they're actually just showing what OIS does, and it's your interpretation that it's demonstrating 920's OIS (and yes, of course it's what they'd want people to think, but that's what commercials are supposed to do)

The girl doesn't have any external lighting, go check the park yourself
Or read this http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/7/329...-hi-res-photos

late edit:
"External lighting" meaning artifical, brought for the photoshoot by Nokia - obviously there's the park lights etc which are always there, but they're there for everyone

[silent_guy]

The end of the whole story is Nokia being the butt of a joke when its camera comes up. It didn't have to be that way. The real pics on The Verge are impressive.

At least they go a lot of press around the paper launch of one of their phones. That didn't happen in a while.

[blakjedi]

I dislike most of samsungs phone designs... To me they appear cheap and flimsy...

The 920 like the 900 appears to be sturdy. And scratch proof. Apparently the thickness of the 920 case is due to the inclusion of wireless charging kit inside the case.

I would like to see the thickness and weight of an s3 once you add an aftermarket wireless charge kit to it...

Unless Htc or MS themselves come out with something extraordinary the 920s features, design, cameras and screen are exactly what I'm looking for.

[Snyder]

Originally Posted by Mariner

The Apple adverts do at least mention, "Sequences shortened", or somesuch nonsense.

Yes, they started to do that after steps to a class action lawsuit were initiated. Before - no such thing. While I applaud that companies should be held accountable for their ads, this shitstorm is too heavily laced with hypocrisy (esp. coming from sites like The Verge) for me to find it ok.

[Kaotik]

At least The Verge had the balls to admit that Lumia 920's camera is indeed so much better than the rest [in nighttime shooting at least] in their later, comparative article

[wco81]

Camera will be better, but is that anything new? Why is it going to turn the tide of smart phone sales this time?

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by wco81

Camera will be better, but is that anything new? Why is it going to turn the tide of smart phone sales this time?

Why wouldn't it play a part in it?
Of course the big question is how well WP8 will be received, but outside the OS itself, there's only so many features that can turn the tides - cameras, IMO, are one of the biggest factors, as we're getting to point where Lumia 920 simply beats most if not all "pocketcameras" at least in night/dark shots.
Software is the other, where Nokia has quite good line-up with the drive/maps/enhanced-reality software stack

[ToTTenTranz]

Originally Posted by Kaotik

Why wouldn't it play a part in it?
Of course the big question is how well WP8 will be received, but outside the OS itself, there's only so many features that can turn the tides - cameras, IMO, are one of the biggest factors, as we're getting to point where Lumia 920 simply beats most if not all "pocketcameras" at least in night/dark shots.
Software is the other, where Nokia has quite good line-up with the drive/maps/enhanced-reality software stack

I think your opinion on the Lumia 920's camera is a bit over-the-top.

Yes, low-light performance is great, but it's based on image stabilization rather than receiving more light and having "larger pixels". As far as I can tell, it's an excelent replacement for a tripod and not for an actually good camera.
This means that you're either shooting inanimate objects (or people just standing very still for a long time) or everything will appear as blurry as hell.


And we're yet to see how good is the shutter speed performance, per-pixel detail and dynamic range of the pictures taken in good light conditions. The PV 808 and N8 had large sensors to excel in that, which the 920 doesn't have. Plus, video performance is also a big question mark yet.



IMHO, from what I've seen so far, Sony's 13MPix Exmor RS modules capable of 1080p HDR video seem to pack more of a "wow factor" than this Pureview "Phase 2".

[Kaotik]

The shutter doesn't really have to be open that long to get a LOT more light - just look at the example shots (yes, those real ones), the water isn't all that blurry, which it would be if we'd be talking about seriously long shutter times.
This should be perfect for "action camera" you take along when you go out for example.

The good light conditions performance remains to be seen, it obviously won't match PV808, but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be still beating everyone else

[french toast]

Right..I'm seriously impressed with the 920...very good all round phone with some innovation, build quality and a touch of class not seen on other phones...such as the scratch proof real ceramic buttons and camera plate, the rounded glass and back, as well as the copied unibody polycarbonate shell with some kind of scratch proof finish...looks built to last a nuclear holocaust

They have innovated with the camera tech, once again making it best in class...also the display should be more power efficient and also better outdoor legibility than the amoleds...apparently class leading brightness, sunlight and response time..afterlife should be better.

The ppi though steals the show, 331 ppi on a 4.5 inch display is awesome...not to mention the full array of rgb subpixels..nice.

Snapdragon s4 is a very well balanced all round chip, as we have seen with the gl benchmark 2.5 results...the adreno 225 is actually very good, mated to a 2000 mha battery, ips LCD, and tombstoning should enable very good battery life.

Love the inclusion of wireless charging..very slick.

Apps seem very interesting indeed..more to follow I hope.

I'm slightly disappointed with the weight and thickness in relation to the battery...also the bezel could allow a 4.7 in screen.

Only Bluetooth 3.1 instead of 4.0 seems a little odd, as does the restriction of mono sound on video recording especially after that rich recording marketing drive.

Would have liked to see a higher mega pixel count on that weighty chassis...16 mega pixel with over sampling into 8 pureview style would have rocked.
No mhl out also sucks, I would have liked to see 64gb internal storage.

But all in all only minor gripes in what appears to be the best Nokia smartphone since the n95 IMHO.

[wco81]

Nokia has often had best in class cameras on their smart phones. Did that keep them from losing market share?

If someone is really serious about taking pictures, they get a camera. Most others don't know the difference.

You see people taking shots of buildings at night with the flash going off, as if the flash on a compact camera is going to make a difference.

Those who know better will bring a camera and tripod.

[blakjedi]

Originally Posted by wco81

Nokia has often had best in class cameras on their smart phones. Did that keep them from losing market share?

If someone is really serious about taking pictures, they get a camera. Most others don't know the difference.

You see people taking shots of buildings at night with the flash going off, as if the flash on a compact camera is going to make a difference.

Those who know better will bring a camera and tripod.

I have a few thoughts about where we are currently in the phone race.

Right now chip IP is becoming highly consolidated into the hands of a few vendors with LTE ip... Apple, qualcomm and nvidia are beginning to rule the roost. Nearly every phone released for the next few months under android or wp8, will have an s4 variant or tegra 3 based.

So hardware internals won't be differentiating factors.

Build quality, battery, thickness/weight considerations factor heavily in this race... The 920 is basically heavier than any other current generation phone at 10.7 mm - nearly 3 mm thicker than the iPhone 5. This can work against the Nokia phone clearly. However the build quality of the nokia is exceptional and the slickness of the phone is undeniable...

What about native ecosystem? The native ecosystem from apple and google are fairly extensive and have years worth of head start. ICloud, google drive and other native business, document and music syncing apps match and may exceed what windows phone currently has natively... In volume at least. But I believe that will be short lived as ms is keen on extending the Xbox brand for entertainment purposes across every ecosystem they touch and skydrive is well documented. Windows phone also has the benefit of potentially leveraging office into their rt and phone experiences... No need for third party apps there. Mapping and travel technology as exposed by Nokia pace well with google map technology and roundly trounce apples mapping tech.

Third party ecosystems on google and apple trounce everything but the windows desktop ecosystem for obvious reasons... But it's in microsofts plan to leverage the desktop as well as the Xbox ecosystems directly onto their phone/tablet presences... If ms can get that off... The current apple benefit would be negated...

So what's left to be the differentiator? Marketing. Clearly just marketing.... The problem with windows is also the source of its strength... People are familiar with its history, both the good and bad... So their expectations are low for a good or better experience than what they have seen from their desktop life.... Whereas android and iOS represent cool non blue screen technology...

If the ms marketing team is on their game... They will find an innovative way of showing ms phones at work, at play, in the office, on the go, with simple intuitive interfaces.

The only and best allure of windows phones is the antithesis of apples... Windows phones should be usable for every use case without an app... Instead of relying on an "app for that" there's an operating system for that...because windows phones does it all... It has the apps you want and the capabilities you need ... Out the box...

This is just my opinion though.

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by blakjedi

Right now chip IP is becoming highly consolidated into the hands of a few vendors with LTE ip... Apple, qualcomm and nvidia are beginning to rule the roost. Nearly every phone released for the next few months under android or wp8, will have an s4 variant or tegra 3 based.

You forgot Samsung, and you might need to scratch off Apple from the list, they're already in trouble with LTE after HTC sued them for 2 patents, and now Samsung will be doing the same with quite a bit heavier artillery apparently.

Also Tegra 3's don't do LTE, Tegra 4 will apparently.

[blakjedi]

Originally Posted by Kaotik

You forgot Samsung, and you might need to scratch off Apple from the list, they're already in trouble with LTE after HTC sued them for 2 patents, and now Samsung will be doing the same with quite a bit heavier artillery apparently.

Also Tegra 3's don't do LTE, Tegra 4 will apparently.

Thank you I didn't know this... Samsung said they are at the ready to sue Apple for any iPhone LTE infringement.

LG owns 23% of the LTE patent pool
Qualcomm owns 21%
Motorola, interdigital, Nokia and Samsung each own 9%

as far as Forbes is concerned... numbers seem to vary depending upon who you ask. Amazon has developed their own LTE patent pool.. I dont understand how they can do that or why there are several thousand LTE related patents. A look at Slashgear brought up this article.

"
iPhone 5 prepared for Samsung legal war with 434 LTE patents
Eric Abent, Sep 4th 2012 Discuss [28]

Worth Reading?
NoYes

-2 [4 votes]

Today Apple began sending out invites for its September 12 event, where the company is widely expected to reveal the next iPhone. The iPhone 5 is rumored to come complete with LTE functionality, but there’s just one problem with that: Samsung has said that it will sue Apple if it releases a device with LTE. Since Apple’s iPad already has LTE, we can take that to mean that Samsung will sue if Apple releases an iPhone with LTE capabilities.


Samsung has a significant number of of LTE patents at its disposal, whereas Apple had none. That has all changed, however, as it’s been revealed that Apple has bought up a ton of LTE patents (and even developed some of its own) in anticipation of such a lawsuit and/or the launch of the next iPhone. The Chosen Ilbo reports that last year, Apple didn’t have any LTE standard patents registered. Now that number has grown to 318 according to Korea Intellectual Property Office, meaning that Apple has 4.9% of all LTE patents – enough for Apple to become one of the top 10 LTE patent holders worldwide.

Of those 318 patents, Apple developed 44 on its own. The rest were purchased from Nortel and Freescale at some point last year. Furthermore, Apple owns a majority stake in Rockstar Bidco, a company which holds another 116 LTE patents, bringing Apple potential LTE patent portfolio up to 434. Samsung, by comparison, holds 819 LTE standard patents, so Apple has just over half as many LTE standard patents as Samsung.

That could provide a layer of defense should Samsung decide to take Apple to court citing its LTE implementation, but some are wondering just how much defense it will provide. The Chosen Ilbo points out that undisclosed commercial patents would prove to be a better defense than disclosed standard patents, so Apple may still have a fight ahead of it. We shall see, because regardless of whether or not Samsung will take it to court, the next iPhone appears to be on the way. Stay tuned.

[Mize]

Lumia 920 has the same sized battery as the Lumia 900 - but a hungrier screen (assuming the superAMOLED was mainly black), a second core, more RAM and a speed bump.

Lumia 900 already had crap battery life...920 better have a replaceable battery...oops.

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by Mize

Lumia 920 has the same sized battery as the Lumia 900 - but a hungrier screen (assuming the superAMOLED was mainly black), a second core, more RAM and a speed bump.

Which would be the wrong assumption. Windows Phone's screen is rarely all black except when doing lists or menu's. Otherwise the main screen, browsing, etc. are predominantly lit up. So there should be an overall reduction in power consumption with the new screen.

Regards,
SB

[french toast]

Originally Posted by Mize

Lumia 920 has the same sized battery as the Lumia 900 - but a hungrier screen (assuming the superAMOLED was mainly black), a second core, more RAM and a speed bump.

Lumia 900 already had crap battery life...920 better have a replaceable battery...oops.

Mize, the lumia 900 had a 1800mah battery and a last gen amoled screen, ie the exact same as the galaxy s2..which consumed a lot of power.

Amoleds are actually on par with LCD on displaying colour, better on blacks, and much much worse on whites...that was with old LCD tech from a few years back...the newer ips + displays are bound to be more efficient.

Dual cores are actually more power efficient than single, plus the s4 is built on 28nm with integrated baseband...making it much much better than those s3 snapdragons with discrete lte on 45nm...which sucked juice at a rate of notts!!.

I'm guessing once the first couple of over the air minor firmware updates have launched within a few weeks of launch, I think battery life should be at least as good as the galaxy s3....maybe better....which would be awesome considering I reckon the battery life of this galaxy rocks now it's bedded in!.

Tottemtranz..the camera on the Nokia will be far superior than every other smartphone, aside from the 808, and even better in some scenarios...I'm just puzzled why Nokia ommitted Bluetooth 4, mhl and stereo recording??..those are media consumption features that Nokia is supposedly focusing on..bizarre.

[blakjedi]

Originally Posted by french toast

Tottemtranz..the camera on the Nokia will be far superior than every other smartphone, aside from the 808, and even better in some scenarios...I'm just puzzled why Nokia ommitted Bluetooth 4, mhl and stereo recording??..those are media consumption features that Nokia is supposedly focusing on..bizarre.

I agree very strange omissions...

[Helmore]

Originally Posted by french toast

Tottemtranz..the camera on the Nokia will be far superior than every other smartphone, aside from the 808, and even better in some scenarios...I'm just puzzled why Nokia ommitted Bluetooth 4, mhl and stereo recording??..those are media consumption features that Nokia is supposedly focusing on..bizarre.

What exactly do you mean with stereo recording? You mean stereo sound recording? Because Nokia has said that the Lumia 920 has 3 mics on board and it would be a little odd if they didn't try to get the most out of those mics.

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by Helmore

What exactly do you mean with stereo recording? You mean stereo sound recording? Because Nokia has said that the Lumia 920 has 3 mics on board and it would be a little odd if they didn't try to get the most out of those mics.

It has 3 mics, but only mono recording.
The recording should be notably better than any competition though, except for 808 PureView obviously, as the 920 has apparently mono version of the Rich Recording (orwhateveritwas) 808 has in stereo, and the sound quality on that thing is nothing short of incredible