[ultragpu]

It really scares me what ND would do with a PS4, I think TLOU will be their last wild ride this gen and then really getting into fine grain graphics and tessellation on nextgen hardware.

[Arwin]

Yeah, I really don't want to watch these things, but in this case it's probably good that I do, as I am starting to think I might like this game after all, despite the zombies.

"He also played Dan Dority in the acclaimed HBO series, Deadwood."

Ah. I thought that sounded familiar, but wasn't sure if it was just my lack of experience with various U.S. accents.

[kagemaru]

Extended demo from E3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GApCMW1F7a0

Looks great.

[Cornsnake]

Technically impressive as always. But it has the exact same problem Uncharted has. It makes no for the characters to be behave that way in gameplay in the context of the story. They should be avoiding combat instead of getting in to it.

[RenegadeRocks]

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

Technically impressive as always. But it has the exact same problem Uncharted has. It makes no for the characters to be behave that way in gameplay in the context of the story. They should be avoiding combat instead of getting in to it.

They did avoid it more than the last gameplay demo of the same area. They just showed more choice in the same level.

I think this clearly wiped off every other game from the radar ! This is it !

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

Technically impressive as always. But it has the exact same problem Uncharted has. It makes no for the characters to be behave that way in gameplay in the context of the story. They should be avoiding combat instead of getting in to it.

Came here to post exactly the same thing!

I was literally shaking my head in disbelief with what I was watching! The gameplay seems completely devoid of any sort of moral choices or implications, which as you mentioned is contradictory to the established setting and themes.

In what I understand is supposed to be a survivalist situation, the main protagonist takes some completely unnecessary risks putting both his own life, and that of the younger girl at risk. What we were shown is that upon reaching the roof of an adjoining building, and realizing that the next building is occupied by some not so friendly looking men, our hero decides that the best course of action is enter said building and BRUTALLY KILL ITS OCCUPANTS! Strangely enough, prior to this choice the soldiers/men can be heard saying that they only have one room left to check, so it should have been fully possible for our protagonist to wait them out. You know, actually act like someone in a survivalist situation, who may not have close quarters combat skills, weapon training... or a conscience! I think it would have been believable if one of the men in the building had something deemed unnecessary for survival, such as food, clean water or lighter/fuel, and the player was asked to make the moral choice of killing another human to survive. Instead, what we saw was basically Uncharted/Splinter Cell with a man and a girl dressed up with Naughty Dogs trademark excellent visuals.

EDIT: I mean he literally, beats a guy to death with a brick, pipe, shoots people, strangles a man, and then chases a guy down and blows his head open! All in fifteen minutes lol!

[Gitaroo]

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

Technically impressive as always. But it has the exact same problem Uncharted has. It makes no for the characters to be behave that way in gameplay in the context of the story. They should be avoiding combat instead of getting in to it.

Like 99.9% of the games out there.

[Cornsnake]

Originally Posted by Gitaroo

Like 99.9% of the games out there.

And is that any reason for TLoU to be like as well? Wouldn't it be better for the story if it wasn't in conflict with the gameplay? Naughty Dog is always talking about finding better ways to tell stories in videogames. Shouldn't this be a part of that? Other developers have succeeded in this so why not Naughty Dog?

[Npl]

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

And is that any reason for TLoU to be like as well? Wouldn't it be better for the story if it wasn't in conflict with the gameplay? Naughty Dog is always talking about finding better ways to tell stories in videogames. Shouldn't this be a part of that? Other developers have succeeded in this so why not Naughty Dog?

They talk about it, but all they managed to do (in U3) is refer to the discrepancy - in a way thats not smart or funny and only sets you up for disappointment if you expect an answer during later in the game.
I dint mind the discrepancy in U2, but it was really annoying how U3 pointed out its flaws itself in short tourett-like bursts, and later went on trying to dispell some of the things that happened in the game in a rather pathetic fashion. No, you dint run out shooting burning demons, you just hallucinated and somehow either shot the air with nonexisting guns you picked up from nonexisting enemies or you just killed humans whose bodies disappeared into hallucinated demons the moment they died (cause you know ecactly when a shot is lethal in real life and beeing drugged). I had no problem with a supernatural things in the past games, but this sorry cover-up just for the sake of beeing "realistic" while you kill a 1000 guys and hundreds of weird spiders while running into certain death for no god reason...

Gone offtopic, but in the end I just wanna say that I dont care if a game stays a game for the reason of entertainment. I just hate when it cripples itself for the premise of beeing "more realistic" and then totally fails on that by just making the gaps more apparent.

[Billy Idol]

what the hell are you guys talking about?

[RenegadeRocks]

Originally Posted by Billy Idol

what the hell are you guys talking about?

Heh heh ! Gamers are getting cynincal with each day. Instead of celebrating such amazing an show of a game, we fight that this isn't enough.

For me, this and the new MGS ! The best way to end this generation. If only The Last Guardian could also make it, this would be the best gen ever !

[RenegadeRocks]

Originally Posted by Npl

They talk about it, but all they managed to do (in U3) is refer to the discrepancy - in a way thats not smart or funny and only sets you up for disappointment if you expect an answer during later in the game.
I dint mind the discrepancy in U2, but it was really annoying how U3 pointed out its flaws itself in short tourett-like bursts, and later went on trying to dispell some of the things that happened in the game in a rather pathetic fashion. No, you dint run out shooting burning demons, you just hallucinated and somehow either shot the air with nonexisting guns you picked up from nonexisting enemies or you just killed humans whose bodies disappeared into hallucinated demons the moment they died (cause you know ecactly when a shot is lethal in real life and beeing drugged). I had no problem with a supernatural things in the past games, but this sorry cover-up just for the sake of beeing "realistic" while you kill a 1000 guys and hundreds of weird spiders while running into certain death for no god reason...

Gone offtopic, but in the end I just wanna say that I dont care if a game stays a game for the reason of entertainment. I just hate when it cripples itself for the premise of beeing "more realistic" and then totally fails on that by just making the gaps more apparent.

I agree with you. I hated that in U3 too. Whats wrong in having some supernatural stuff in there, in fact I was waiting for it after having played u1 and 2. They took away the whole mystique by saying it was only some drugs.

And you are right that they did it just to satisfy the majority of interwebzians who roll their eyes at anything "non-realistic" . I ask you, since when were games realistic ? When was realism fun ? It is only in a very few cases where survival and simulation mechanincs make realism fun, otherwise I would rather they keep FUN paramount and sacrifice everything else for it. That is the reason I like japanese devs more. They don't care if a mechanic makes their game look silly, if in the long run it is fun, it is in !

[nightshade]

About UC3 endgame

I also think it's funny how the hallucinating Drake imagines demons that explode and these explosion physically affects him in real life and can kill him, I mean to say what the fuck mate ? What kind of dick logic is it to disregard all that and simply say it was a hallucination ? Uncharted games have always had trouble with bringing about a cohesiveness between the transition from its gameplay to cutscene/story moments and vice versa. The desert part where he's thirsty and immediately starts shooting random goons forgetting about his thirst completely was another such jarring transition.

[RenegadeRocks]

You do forget that he gets to drink down in the bottom of the well, before he starts shooting. But , yes, it wasn't enoigh to get up and going so fast.

[Cornsnake]

I get the feeling U3 story was severely rewritten at some point.

The bad guys already have that stuff that causes hallucinations and let's them control people even before they find it in that ancient city.

And there was that plot point about Drake not really being Sir Fransis Drake's descendant that was mentioned but never got anywhere.

[tuna]

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

I get the feeling U3 story was severely rewritten at some point.

The bad guys already have that stuff that causes hallucinations and let's them control people even before they find it in that ancient city.

And there was that plot point about Drake not really being Sir Fransis Drake's descendant that was mentioned but never got anywhere.

About the last point, it definitely gives more depth to the Drake character. I mean, what is he searching for in his life. Can he be happy living a normal life. It is in the subtext when he is talking with Elena (at least I felt it).

[Cornsnake]

Originally Posted by tuna

About the last point, it definitely gives more depth to the Drake character. I mean, what is he searching for in his life. Can he be happy living a normal life. It is in the subtext when he is talking with Elena (at least I felt it).

Sure, but that doesn't explain why he's living a lie. You could say that he did it to get away from his crappy childhood, but that still doesn't explain why he's keeps on living the lie as an adult. Something important to a character should have been better explained.

[RenegadeRocks]

Yes, i agree on thise points too. Thats is why I found UC2 to be a more complete game. Uc3 had loopholes u don't really expect in the third game, when the first two did a good job of telling a charming story.

[Ghostz]

So many people making uninspired uc2 ripoffs as of late, this is looking like the actual sequel we should've gotten last year. Everyone is clearly playing a sad case of catch up. It's shocking how ahead of the curve they are to Tomb Raiders of the Uncharted 2 2.5 additions we'll be getting next year.

[Prophecy2k]

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

Sure, but that doesn't explain why he's living a lie. You could say that he did it to get away from his crappy childhood, but that still doesn't explain why he's keeps on living the lie as an adult. Something important to a character should have been better explained.

In FFVII, the best part about the character Cloud Strife, aside from him ultimately finding out he is a failed clone of his worst enemy, is that he has been living for most of his life a lie, to try to get away from a past he was ashamed of. It was a lie he was so invested in, he actually convinced himself that it was true.

This was for me the most interesting, and compelling part of his character, and in the case of Uncharted 3 I think this new revelation added a much greater degree of depth (and darkness) to an already entertaining and likeable character. It was welcome for me... And i'm glad they didn't just blow their load and try to expound on it too much in U3. It's good to leave loose threads that you can unwind in later games Keeps people intrigued imho

[Prophecy2k]

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

And is that any reason for TLoU to be like as well? Wouldn't it be better for the story if it wasn't in conflict with the gameplay? Naughty Dog is always talking about finding better ways to tell stories in videogames. Shouldn't this be a part of that? Other developers have succeeded in this so why not Naughty Dog?

I don't even understand the complaint. The player ran straight into a confrontation because that's what the player CHOSE to do. It was obvious to me that the player had enough choice in that short demo whether to engage the enemies in combat, or avoid them. The mechanical tools afforded the player clearly allowed for a stealthy escape undetected.

So your complaint should not be with naughty dog as if the game design is at fault, rather the choice of the person playing the demo. So there's an easy solution... You just make your own choice when you finally get to play the game yay!

Edit:
Otoh, the main character attacking and killing those guys is not at all at odds with the story. As the story intends to present and uncomfortably brutal, and unforgiving world where people don't work together towards survivial, and its basically kill or be killed. When they're strapped for supplies and they think they can take what they need from an enemy quickly via ambush, they'll def do it. To me it shows just how violent and visceral the post-apolcalyptic world of TLOU is, and how the characters are forced to do things that we would consider uber sadistic and sociopathic.

[Billy Idol]

Originally Posted by Prophecy2k

I don't even understand the complaint. The player ran straight into a confrontation because that's what the player CHOSE to do. It was obvious to me that the player had enough choice in that short demo whether to engage the enemies in combat, or avoid them. The mechanical tools afforded the player clearly allowed for a stealthy escape undetected.

So your complaint should not be with naughty dog as if the game design is at fault, rather the choice of the person playing the demo. So there's an easy solution... You just make your own choice when you finally get to play the game yay!

Edit:
Otoh, the main character attacking and killing those guys is not at all at odds with the story. As the story intends to present and uncomfortably brutal, and unforgiving world where people don't work together towards survivial, and its basically kill or be killed. When they're strapped for supplies and they think they can take what they need from an enemy quickly via ambush, they'll def do it. To me it shows just how violent and visceral the post-apolcalyptic world of TLOU is, and how the characters are forced to do things that we would consider uber sadistic and sociopathic.

Finally a reasonable person in this thread? Thanks Prophecy2k!

[Cornsnake]

Originally Posted by Prophecy2k

In FFVII, the best part about the character Cloud Strife, aside from him ultimately finding out he is a failed clone of his worst enemy, is that he has been living for most of his life a lie, to try to get away from a past he was ashamed of. It was a lie he was so invested in, he actually convinced himself that it was true.

This was for me the most interesting, and compelling part of his character, and in the case of Uncharted 3 I think this new revelation added a much greater degree of depth (and darkness) to an already entertaining and likeable character. It was welcome for me... And i'm glad they didn't just blow their load and try to expound on it too much in U3. It's good to leave loose threads that you can unwind in later games Keeps people intrigued imho

I thought it was an interesting character development. To me it seems more appropriate to deal with his past first before moving into the future. Now that he has settled down with Elena it becomes a lot more difficult to do that. A lot of U3 seems to lead a good conclusion for Drake's story with him choosing Elena instead of going treasure hunting. Another sequel at this point could easily end up taking away from the existing storyline. Uncharted could end up like God of War where nothing makes sense any more. I'd much rather see Naughty Dog create new characters in a new setting like they are doing with TLoU.

Originally Posted by Prophecy2k

I don't even understand the complaint. The player ran straight into a confrontation because that's what the player CHOSE to do. It was obvious to me that the player had enough choice in that short demo whether to engage the enemies in combat, or avoid them. The mechanical tools afforded the player clearly allowed for a stealthy escape undetected.

So your complaint should not be with naughty dog as if the game design is at fault, rather the choice of the person playing the demo. So there's an easy solution... You just make your own choice when you finally get to play the game yay!

Edit:
Otoh, the main character attacking and killing those guys is not at all at odds with the story. As the story intends to present and uncomfortably brutal, and unforgiving world where people don't work together towards survivial, and its basically kill or be killed. When they're strapped for supplies and they think they can take what they need from an enemy quickly via ambush, they'll def do it. To me it shows just how violent and visceral the post-apolcalyptic world of TLOU is, and how the characters are forced to do things that we would consider uber sadistic and sociopathic.

Yes it was the players choice. And if we truly have that choice I'll make mine differently. I just find it strange that we still haven't seen an all stealth run (not killing anyone), making me wonder if such a thing is even possible.

In that video they were outnumbered and the only thing they took from the enemies were the bullets they wasted killing them. In other words, needless risk. What you describe sounds interesting, but it wasn't what happened in that video.

[milk]

That nitpicking goes to shoe how good the game really is. The world ND created is so believable that people complain about small inconsistencies. Any other game out there is much more unrealistic but people do not complain because there are other more obvious faults to bother them before they even start considering story and such.

[Bigduo209]

For anybody thinking you only have one option, read Prophecy's post:

Originally Posted by Prophecy2k

I don't even understand the complaint. The player ran straight into a confrontation because that's what the player CHOSE to do. It was obvious to me that the player had enough choice in that short demo whether to engage the enemies in combat, or avoid them. The mechanical tools afforded the player clearly allowed for a stealthy escape undetected.

So your complaint should not be with naughty dog as if the game design is at fault, rather the choice of the person playing the demo. So there's an easy solution... You just make your own choice when you finally get to play the game yay!

Edit:
Otoh, the main character attacking and killing those guys is not at all at odds with the story. As the story intends to present and uncomfortably brutal, and unforgiving world where people don't work together towards survivial, and its basically kill or be killed. When they're strapped for supplies and they think they can take what they need from an enemy quickly via ambush, they'll def do it. To me it shows just how violent and visceral the post-apolcalyptic world of TLOU is, and how the characters are forced to do things that we would consider uber sadistic and sociopathic.

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

Yes it was the players choice. And if we truly have that choice I'll make mine differently. I just find it strange that we still haven't seen an all stealth run (not killing anyone), making me wonder if such a thing is even possible.

In that video they were outnumbered and the only thing they took from the enemies were the bullets they wasted killing them. In other words, needless risk. What you describe sounds interesting, but it wasn't what happened in that video.

At least you know you have the option to choose. Fight or stealth, it's all up to you.

People were complaining about the same thing for Hitman and Splinter Cell until they did a playthrough to show otherwise. I know gamers are cynical about this stuff since every other game is trying to do one-way blockbuster action-flick, but sometimes people just read way too far into this stuff.